With a big Omnibus collecting all of them coming out any time, my mind has been drawn to the assorted authorized crossovers undertaken by rival companies Marvel and DC over the years. Some of those stories were triumphs, sagas that compared and contrasted the characters involved skillfully, and which were just crackerjack entertaining in their own right. However, not all of these crossovers attained that lofty status. And in fact, especially as they became more and more routine, a number of them were released that didn’t truly have any special spark to them–they weren’t badly crafted per se, but they simply didn’t have the same inspiration as the best of the lot. Here then are Five Middling Marvel/DC Crossovers.
BATMAN/PUNISHER: LAKE OF FIRE: The first Marvel/DC crossover released after a hiatus of almost a decade, this entry was relevant in the moment but didn’t stand the test of time. And that entirely comes down to the decision to feature not the traditional Caped Crusader Bruce Wayne in this story, but rather his then-current substitute in the role of Batman, Jean-Paul Valley. This keyed into what was then going on in the Batman titles when it was released, but severely limits interest in it afterwards. On top of which, it’s a pretty pedestrian story. Denny O’Neil and Barry Kitson do a solid job across the boards, but this issue comes across as just another random Batman comic book rather than something unique and special. Fortunately, this was almost immediately followed up by the far-superior PUNISHER/BATMAN: DEADLY KNIGHTS.
SILVER SURFER/SUPERMAN: Here’s a book that has its heart in the right place, but its execution is simply lacking. Written by George Perez, who was then writing the ongoing SILVER SURFER title and illustrated by Ron Lim, who had done a long stint on the character, this should have been an easy lay-up. Yet somehow, its 48 pages are tedious, with the Last Son of Krypton and the Skyrider of the Spaceways having to contend not with some earth-shattering menace, but rather interdimensional pests Mr. Mxyzptlk and the Impossible Man. On the surface of that description, this should have been great–but sadly, the story is neither funny nor gripping. It’s just kind of there.
SUPERMAN/FANTASTIC FOUR: You can tell that a whole lot of effort went into this issue. Not only was it released in the larger treasury Edition format, the first crossover to do that since 1980, but ace painted Alex Ross agreed to paint the wraparound cover by writer and artist Dan Jurgens. Given Jurgens’ experience and familiarity with both the Man of Steel and the Cosmic Quartet, this really should have been great. And it does have its moments, such as Superman gifting young admirer Franklin Richards his cape. But overall, the story somehow never takes flight the way that it should. It’s simply pedestrian–which is about the worst thing you can say about a tale involving Galactus.
BATMAN & SPIDER-MAN: This is the second time writer J.M. DeMatteis had been called upon to pair up the Dark Knight with the wall-crawling wonder, and while his first attempt, SPIDER-MAN/BATMAN, was throughly enjoyable, this one failed to ignite. It’s almost as though DeMatteis had said all that he had to say about the two characters in the prior book and had nothing more of any substance to add. The artwork by Graham Nolan is professional but pedestrian as well, lacking in visual energy and excitement. This isn’t a bad story per se, but it is just a bit dull–and it also feels like any old throwaway issue of BATMAN rather than something that ought to stand out.
BATMAN/DAREDEVIL: KING OF NEW YORK: You could tell that people were getting tired and that these crossover books were becoming more of a burden than a privilege by the time this last one came out. (Last except for the JLA/AVENGERS crossover, which followed a few years later.) The first BATMAN/DAREDEVIL crossover hadn’t been all that great, though it was buoyed a bit by some energetic artwork from Scott McDaniel. This one, though, is utterly tedious. It’s clearly just another job to writer Alan Grant, who only ever had a middling interest in super heroes in the first place. And while Eduardo Barreto does his usual straightforward job on the artwork, it too is merely functional rather than exciting. This book in particular was Exhibit A as to why the Marvel/DC Crossovers ought to be given a rest at this point.
The Tom Brevoort Experience 
Must have been tough to limit it to just 5. Apart from the original 4, Amalgam & JLA/Avengers most of them were subpar.
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Does the positioning of the corporate logos on the cover indicate which company produced the issue? Like, the 4 issues with the DC bullet are by people I think of as being DC people at that time.
I havenāt read any of these, but I liked a few that came out in this second batch. Thereās a good Batman/Captain America by John Byrne and a fun Superman/Hulk drawn by Steve Rude.
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I skipped all four Batman crossovers. My Batman died with Crisis. I wouldn’t have bought the Punisher one regardless. I consider Punisher a villainous character and I prefer heroic fiction. A well done book starring a villain is one thing as long as they’re portrayed villainous but Frank Castle is basically a serial killer with other criminals as his preferred targets.
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Just curious Steve, did you skip “The Dark Knight Returns” and/or “Batman: Year One”?
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My completism was still in effect and I didn’t realize why I was so dissatisfied as quickly as I would be if there were a similar change in a character now. Batman and Detective were among the first wave of books that I started skipping once that started.
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@Steve McSheffrey “B:Y1” remains my fave By atman story. Bur just before, the 1st few issues of the regular monthly series under Denny’s editorship, the ore-Crisis status quo felt intact. And then immediately after “B:Y1”, except for HH ason Todd’s backstory, most elements of Batman were the same
Barr & Davis’s “Detective” felt very pre-Crisis. And I didn’t get a sense of drastic change from A Grant/J Wagner & Breyfogle’s run, outside of the dynamic art
What really changed for you? No pushback or argument against easons. Just very curious what they were. I felt there were other characters who became more different post-Crisis she than Batman did. But I could be overlooking key examples.
There was a shift in the 90’s. For me it was more about quality than tone. The late 80’s felt like a search for balancing maturity in the stories. And some writers went too far. I loved Morrison’s run. Most of the writers in the last dozen years have left me cold, or their work turned me away.
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If only John Byrne had done a SUPERMAN/FF book. I liked the Jurgens book just fine but Byrne doing it wouldāve/couldāve been an all-timer.
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I’d like a Waid/Wieringo one as well.
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In Superman/Fantastic Four I get why someone would want to link Galactus to the destruction of Krypton after seeing him eat the Skrull Throne World [ Fantastic Four#257 ( August 1983 ) ] — with their destruction looking so similar, but what had the writer made Galactus responsible who have been the point? Was Superman going to fly into a rage and try to kill Galactus? Only to get turned into a worm or dust (? ) [ Fantastic Four#211 ( October 1979 ) see how Galactus humbled new herald Terrax the Tamer ]. Galactus is more powerful than the Silver Surfer ( see the things he did during Lee-Kirby years & what Dr. Doom did with his powers as proof ) and the Surfer is more powerful than Superman ( Hell in Darkseid Vs. Galactus: The Hunger the Surfer should have kicked Darkseid’s butt based on the things he can do that Darkseid much less Thanos can do ). TOM, I know you said the powers that be didn’t like the plot or ending of the unfinished George Perez drawn original AVENGERS/JLA but I have a feeling it was still better than all these Marvel/DC Crossovers combined on George Perez’s art alone.
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( Should have triple checked cause this was what was in my head ) …but what if the writer had made Galactus responsible what would have been the point? When these crossovers were posted I tried to think of an FF foe other than Galactus to appear opposite the Cyborg Superman, the Super-Skrull would be an obvious choice ( in his first appearance he was stronger on the Skrull Throneworld than on Earth — Marvel writer’s should have taken a page from OMAC’s Brother Eye and had a Skrull saucer beam power from Earth orbit directly down on the Super-Skrull so that he would be just as powerful on Earth as on Throneworld ) but it was Quasimodo [ Nova/The Man Called Nova#25 ( May 1979 ) the Sphinx showed us what his insides look like and his Cyborg nature made me think of the Cyborg Superman ]– Tom thought Quasimodo’s fate wasn’t resolved at the end of Fantastic Four#202 ( January 1979 ) but I remembered seeing him in the last issue of Nova/The Man Called Nova. I know Quasimodo isn’t a match for Superman but just like he created that Iron Man robot in FF#202 he could created ( either on his own or with the Cyborg Superman’s help ) a bunch of Superman Robots to attack Superman. We already know from Gladiator kicking the FF’s butts that the Cyborg Superman is going to be a problem for the Fantastic Four unless Reed does to him what he did to Skrull-X [ FF#204 ( March 1979 ) ].
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Gutsy article, Tom. You know several of the creative folks who worked on these. You’ve worked with more than a few, too. I’d have to agree with you, though. The cross-over gold standard might be that X-Men/Teen Titans job. And all of these fell unsatisfyingly short.
It was also shortsighted for DC to feature Az-Bat in the crossover with the Punisher. Unfortunately, that was the company line back then. I was glad there was another shot with Bruce back in the Bat-suit, yet I was disappointed with it. I’ve been a longtime JR,Jr. fan. But his rendition of Batman felt careless to me. The too-long ears (Kelly Jones can pull it off because of how macabre the whole world he depicts is); the needlessly extended glove strips; the inconsistent # of points on the bottom of the bat inside the chest emblem’s yellow oval.
And the figure anatomy. Sometimes Batman’s torso made me think of the underside of a crab’s shell. The Joker wasn’t the slight, gangly, vaguely effeminate, or sometimes grotesque Joker shown in the past. Instead we got a Clown Prince of Crime as husky or bulky as any of his muscled hench-goons. It was as if JR, Jr. was almost completely unaware of how Batman & his supporting characters were supposed to look. And didn’t bother to look it up. It detracted from the whole package for me. The colorist nailed the shade of Batman’s blue. Overall the book still felt off for me. Still, much better than the “Lake of Fore”.
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That Alex Ross cover is Alex painting over Dan’s pencils. I always thought it was interesting when he worked with a different penciler like that.
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The thing that’s mystified me about that Superman/FF cover for 25 years… Superman, Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben’s poses are all WAY too similar. Leaning forward, mouth open, left arm raised, right arm lowered behind them. It’s like they’re in a conga line.
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I liked the second Spider-Man/Batman crossover well enough, although in my old TPB, it seemed like one of the pages was out of order. Or maybe it was just some non-linear storytelling that I’m misremembering. I guess I’ll see when I look at the omnibus.
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Ross elevated the look with his lighting & colors, & naturalistic finishing of the original drawing. He could only fix so much. Jurgens hasn’t been what I’d considered to be an innovator. He’s mostly made me think he’s recycled his fave elements of the Bronze Age, in both story and art.
I was into it without realizing anything below the surface when I was still in my teens in the late 80’s. But it started to stagnate for me by my early 20’s. I still like a lot of Rick Buckler’s work. And Dan’s feels to have been influenced by Buckler’s, or maybe had similar influences as Buckler.
But unlike other artists whose early work was similar to, or influenced by Buckler’s, like George Perez, Bob Hall, or Trevor Von Eeden, Dan’s work didn’t seem to progress or improve. Or even get refined/perfect (like Perez & others), unless it was finished by a master inker like Kevin Nowlan (then it just looked like Nowlan’s), or Janson (also looked more Janson than Jurgens) or Rubinstein. But otherwise, Dan’s work never surpassed Buckler’s for me
I started paying too much attention to its flaws. Especially when I was enjoying a lot of mind-blowing stuff by many others. So your observations about this cover don’t surprise me. The best things about it were by Ross.
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The only payoff from the first Batman/Punisher crossover was the second Batman/Punisher crossover. Frank Castle didnāt realize he was dealing with the original and better Batman in this comic. During an argument Frank clocks Bruce on the chin. Bruce tells him he gave him that first hit considering the confusion of meeting two different people called Batman. But he warns Frank not to try it again, which (of course) he does. This second time Bruce lays Frank out with a single punch and reminds him that he warned him not to try it again. The reader is left with the obvious conclusion that The Punisher is no match for the real Batman.
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I wouldn’t blame JM DeMatteis too much for that SPIDER-MAN/BATMAN crossoverā *I* was the one who was supposed to write it! And I had even picked the villain match-up of Kingpin and Ra’sā which had been editorially approved, so they were part of the deal. But the fact of the matter is that this project came my way when I was going through some rough times, personally, and I simply could not come up with a story. I was hitting a wall day after day, and time was running out. So I backed out of it, and I can only imagine how quickly JM had to turn the job around. I haven’t read it in a long time, but thought JM did an interesting job with the story, all things considered.
I did agree to ink the job insteadā which was, honestly, the sort of job I was still capable of handling fairly well right then, given my circumstances. And I had a great time inking Graham, who was channelling JR SR quite well, IMO.
Of course, none of that really matters. You have to judge the book on the book itself, not the circumstances under which it was created.
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I hope things worked out well for you then, Karl, getting through that tough time. Ra’s & Fisk actually makes a lot of sense as a villain collaboration. Similar to al-Ghul & Falcone in “Batman Begins”, some years later. Though the relationship differed.
Since we’re on crossovers, I enjoyed the “Year One” meet of the JLA & Avengers, that I think you wrote. I’m a fan of Pat Oliffe’s stuff, & the whole thing was satisfying. Whoever came up with “Thor-El showed a flash of brilliance.
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The usual set-up for these crossovers where the Marvel and DC characters live in the same universe and know each other was a bridge to far for me. Though I can understand how it’s a very effective hand wave that wouldn’t bother a casual reader who might be interested in seeing Character X and Y interact. Some characters work together better an others and your mileage will vary… a Hulk that lives on the same world as Superman is reduced to being an aggressive pest.
The set-up of JLAvengers with the separate universes colliding worked better for me.
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The problem with the “universes colliding” approach is that it forces the plot to always be ABOUT the collision of universes. Which is fine for JLA/Avengers, but is maybe not going to work so well for a Batman/Daredevil story.
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Yeah. Having to explain how & why the characters are crossing universes just takes up story space more often than not. I’d rather just have everybody on the same world and get to the fun stuff faster.
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My idea of a crossover between DC and Marvel (movie or comic) is for them to meet for a picnic and baseball game. I can imagine Plastic Man and Mr. Fantastic getting tangled up, the Mighty Thor striking out and becoming Mighty Sore, Invisible WomanĀ getting a hit and nobody knows what base she’s on, some of the other girls distracting some of the guys, and silly stuff like that. Never happen, but I used to daydream about it.
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The SILVER SURFER/SUPERMAN besides a different artist ( Alan Davis, Tom Grummett, etc. — if not John Byrne for a third time ) should have been MISTER MXYZPTLK and LOKI [ Surfer fought him in Silver Surfer vol.1#4 ( February 1969 ) at his weakest ]. I Thought about Loki ( a trickster god in myths before going full evil ) before I saw this Screenrant story ( Googled DC Comics Mister Mxyzptlk and then clicked on images and scrolled down to image of Thor & Mxyzptlk — Marvel’s Thor Took A Major Insult From Superman’s Own Loki — Superman: The Man of Steel#56 ( May 1996 ) Mr. Mxyzptlk turned Superman first into a baby, then Streaky the Super-Cat, Krypto and then a Frog ( Mxyzptlk says, Nah! The appeal’s too LOW-KEY! ). My other thought was MISTER MXYZPTLK and The BEYONDER since he posed as a Beyonder-like being ( Ben DeRoy ) in Superman#11 ( November 1987 ). I know the original version Mr. Mxyztplk [ Superman#30 ( September-October 1944 ) ] didn’t demonstrate powers that Loki couldn’t mimic. I just thought of MEPHISTO and LORD SATANUS.
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